Time for a check in
By ruggaexpat
2/26/2014 10:46:03 PM
It has been ages since I thought about the site. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing but for one thing, I know I am clean and that is what my journey is all about.

So the wife is still suffering, I think I have become a better friend, husband and father but still can do much better. I can still be a bit insensitive and selfish minded but hey that is not news to the addict now is it? LOL.

Anyway, I am in no mood to try give any advice, just want to say that it is possible to be clean and stay clean.

I think I have come a long way. I have learned to control my thoughts, and that is a battle that I never imagined I would win but when you have the savior with you it becomes possible.

I have a new baby boy and he is just incredible. He is my redemption, I get to "be there" for him from day 1 and that is just awesome. There was a day when I thought I would never have another child. What a blessing!

I wonder how some of you LDSAR "veterans" are doing. Some of you folks were angels behind your macs, PC's, mobiles and second degree anon statements. Just incredible support in trying times. I do not want to experience those times ever again. Brutal stuff of the highest order!!!

The gospel is true, Power for healing comes through the atonement and most importantly recovery is real.

God bless folks



You reminded me that saying, "Pain is the touchstone to spiritual growth"    
"So good to hear from you!!! Thank you, Rugga. This really made my day. I am so grateful to hear how well you are doing, my friend. You are a great example of recovery.

-one of the anons"
posted at 00:49:01 on February 27, 2014 by Anonymous
Thanks, Rugga    
"Great to hear from you!!!!!

I'm with you. Cleanliness is possible. Life is fantastic.

Don't give up, oh ye sufferers. Jesus saves."
posted at 14:50:19 on February 27, 2014 by beclean
Hope you are well Anon and Beclean    
"It feels like I am back home for a funny reason or other. Strangest feeling. I love this site, it is tight.

Anon I am sure you are the real example. Thanks means a lot to have made some sort of difference. We just have to keep at it and things get better over time. I am still searching for that silver bullet of magical wife healing it seems but that is a losing battle. Still part of me has hopes it exists.

Beclean, buddy so happy you are clean bro. So happy you are fighting the fight and giving hope to all of us sufferers. Man you helped me a great deal, I always felt you cared and those books you wrote did not go unread in these quarters. Good to know there are real battles getting won.

Man I wish I never came across P. I hate that smut to the biggest degree. It smashed my family and the road to recovery is not rosy and just plain sucks most of the time. Fortunately those moments that bring hope are sweeter than the long term misery and regret.

Hang in there all at least I am anyway.

posted at 15:55:35 on February 27, 2014 by ruggaexpat
Tony on Marriage    
"Hey Rugga, are you acquainted with Tony Litster's free programs for helping people?

He has one for marriage. Check it out:"
posted at 14:42:56 on February 28, 2014 by beclean
Checking in    
"Over a year "free." I have my temple recommend. Live is good."
posted at 00:14:23 on March 1, 2014 by jakey
Check in    
"Hey Rugga et al,
Good to hear from you and so happy for you.

I am getting kicked around the block right now personally, so it was good to hear something uplifting.

Take care!
posted at 18:37:28 on March 2, 2014 by Anonymous
"Hi friend! So good to hear your recovery is going so well. New baby!!!...congratulations!!! Enjoy enjoy!!!
I check the site fairly frequently, but don't comment much...taking a beating from life right now. (Maddy youre not alone, love you girl!). Like Maddy I enjoyed this good news from Rugga's world, and it gives me hope."
posted at 20:28:54 on March 2, 2014 by Summer
"Sorry to learn things are really rough at the moment. The journey is a rough one for the loved one isn't it? You are a trooper, keep going, keep plugging away. Don't you give up sister, things will get better, I know they can. I also know there are many steep mountains to climb and deep valleys to cross. Keep going Maddy and life will get better.

My wife is really still struggling and we still have those valleys.
We also have that same mountain to climb still but we are climbing slowly.
I just recently returned back to a therapist, not for the addiction but to fix our relationship.
Still a long road ahead but just got to keep going."
posted at 22:47:14 on March 5, 2014 by ruggaexpat
"Same applies to you buddy, keep at it. It will get better. Don't lose your shine because there are many newbies here that can do with all the life saving positiveness you shared with me and the guys when we were down in the addiction recovery dumps. You gave us all hope. You lived up to your namesake on this site. You were a breath of fresh air.

I could not have made it without you and a few others on the site. You ladies were the real supporters cheering us on. It did make a difference so no matter what is happening now just know you guys have a special place in my recovery journey.

How is the hubby doing?

Maddy how is yours doing?"
posted at 22:56:57 on March 5, 2014 by ruggaexpat
Our update    
"He's been clean for several months he says. But the rough part is that he is so....distant. I guess so am I so it is not surprising. I am pretty detached from him and his recovery. He spends hours and hours at work or alone in his room doing homework. We've got all the filters and such in place, but that doesn't mean anything I know. I figure that it is his problem and I've gotten my head bitten off too many times by getting involved. People do what they want in the end and if he wanted me as part of his life then he'd work towards that.

We live in separate worlds. He doesn't seem to pay attention to the kids and I on any meaningful level. It's the lack of patience, the lack of kindness that is really in the way. I can't think of the last time he said something nice to me or played with the kids. I guess it is just normal relationship problems, but everything is so tied into his addictions that I never know for sure what is going on. I've accepted that I don't trust him and he doesn't really seem invested in our family. The less he seems to care, the less I care. We are really in a downward spiral of increasing apathy.

I used to get mad at the way he treats the kids and I, but the fight has left me. I am a little depressed how my life has turned out, but it's not worth fighting him about anymore. It is what it is.

I've got my plan to leave him but I'll have to finish up some schooling before I can support myself and kids on our own. He and I don't fight so I can deal with the emptiness as long as there is no hostility.

I've emotionally and spiritually left church. I just don't see the point to it anymore. My kids hate it and I hate it. Ironically, the only one who seems committed to going is my husband.
Neither of us go to meetings anymore either. Go figure. Basically, we've both given up.

Cheerfully yours,
posted at 07:50:53 on March 6, 2014 by Anonymous
Wow, Maddy    
"That's terrible. I feel terrible for you.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Tony's radical relationship revolution. He claims his marriage was much like yours when he figured it all out, but my marriage has never been that low, so I can't testify personally that it does the miracles he's claiming. Have you tried it?"
posted at 09:53:56 on March 6, 2014 by beclean
"I tried the Lister program for a very brief period of time. I don't remember how far into it was that I ran into a little speech he gave that was so terribly sexist that I turned it off and just never picked it back up again. My husband was using it faithfully for much of 2013 and seemed to really love it. It didn't change anything, but he said it was nice. I honestly don't know if he still uses it.
posted at 12:20:05 on March 6, 2014 by Anonymous
I am sorry to hear about your pain Maddy    
I have to say I had to reread you post several times. I was reading your post and felt like you were describing my life in some very specific detail. I am sorry to hear that you and your husband have both given up. I have been pretty close to giving up the last couple of days and weeks, in fact if I let myself think about it too much right now I think I would like to just throw it all away.

What I think has helped me make some progress is my sponsor. I have toyed with sobriety for years wanting to be rid of my addiction, but never having the tools or power to overcome the addiction. My wife about a month ago read me the riot act about how I was decieving myself and that I needed a sponsor, that I needed to come clean, and that i needed help from SA. I have about 35 days of sobriety now. I may have started it because she asked me to, I am continuing because I want to stay clean now. I see and feel the difference and I don't want to go back. I wish I had something to say that would make things better for you. My prayers certainly go out to you and your family.

Something that has helped me a little bit is Elder Christofferson's talk from two years ago about our daily bread. I don't like the idea of having to rely upon the Lord for everything I want to do my own thing and have some freedom and self reliance; however he described very well the need to have our daily bread or support from the Savior. The other one that helped me recently was Elder Vinson's talk from Conference in which he talked about why we have trials - to develop the faith to rely upon him completely. I am still at the point where I cry out to God a lot saying allright already I know how to do this one just give me what I want already. I have to trust in him though that he has my best interest at heart. For me as I have done this over the last 35 days the tempations have decreased significantly. I don't want to trumpet this but I do realize that as I turn my life over to God he can truly make more of me than I can of myself - I just don't really care to admit that :). Prayers go out to you!"
posted at 14:11:36 on March 6, 2014 by sjanderson
Thanks Maddy    
"Was that his program for addicts and addiction or for couples and relationships, which I don't think is centered on addiction?

I know the addicts program has helped me a ton, as an addict. It may not be right for loved ones.

But I'm really wondering how the relationship program works. He does it right alongside his wife, so I would be surprised if she let's him get sexist.

Please let me know, if that's the program you tried. Then I'll know not to recommend it anymore. I value your opinion."
posted at 21:14:22 on March 6, 2014 by beclean
"I am not going to try claim that I understand your experience but if I may share something that may just give you some insight into my own life. Who knows if this relates to your husband, but chances are based on how you described your situation and the way he is behaving that there may be some parts that do apply.

Let me tell you: I still have an addiction but my addiction is no longer P or M or Lust. It has shifted to what some call intimacy disorder a.k.a intimacy anorexia. This is a very real problem.
This disorder is driven by very real internalized shame that I experience at a very deep level within me. My brains automatic default when I experience pain is to turn inside and close up and seek the comfort of isolation. I feel safe and I feel that I should let the argument or disagreement or contention pass to a future day. I prefer not to deal with the source (wife) of the pain thinking that another day will be best when we are all in a more positive mind set.

My wife is so ashamed that she married me because her vision with Peter Mormon who could do no wrong. Well unfortunately Peter Mormon turned out to be Lucifer's great grandson who put on a classic show of deceitfulness, cunning and evil. Not what she dreamed of since those days in young women when she was sold the dream of eternal bliss now was it?

So what we have in my relationship is that we both to differing degrees suffer from internalized shame and unfortunately, our interactions reflect that shame upon ourselves leaving me to run for the cave when in the past I would run for lust. We are our worst enemies in our exchanges and it takes the smallest of mistakes to light up a raging storm in the home. So has gone my last 4 years of recovery. I bet some of this applies to many addicts and loved ones. Shame is the real enemy.

When I experience shame the impulse is to hide (Adam and Eve style), to seek for abnormal recognition etc. Shame is the source of my pain.

The concerning thing to read from your reply is that he is distant from the children. That right there is a big problem because the children are usually a safe zone for me, they can say what they want but I know they love me and I can have a very strong connection with them regardless. I am so excited to come home and see them and when I get into play time with them, I just feel the happiest. I suppose it is because they have no guile and I know they love me so much. I love coming home to see my wife but after many years of telling me I am the source of misery in her life, it is not the same as the relationship with the kids in my mind.

This is all twisted I know but I know I have so much work to do and it is so overwhelming.
I bet your husband loves you but he feels so overwhelmed. By the way I needed 2 therapists to learn all this stuff about myself. Finally Maddy I am starting to understand what makes me tick and what makes me shut off. It is real liberty. I have a long way to go.

I also must credit my wife for not giving up. She can be a pain (pun intended) at times (in fact many times) but she has not given up and won't give up. She has felt the way you feel right now but some how found a way to hold on. I love her dearly for that holding on for dear life. I bet you that your husband feels the same way.

Do you still love him???

Do you still want to love him???

If he were to get off his rear end and make something happen, would your outlook in looking to leave him change???"
posted at 21:53:06 on March 6, 2014 by ruggaexpat
"I appreciate you sharing your experience Rugga. It does sound a lot like us. He can't even come close to talking about anything hard. Doesn't matter if it is addiction or a bad day at work or grades with kids or whatever. He just instantly gets mad or shuts down completely.

I am so focused on my regrets. I wish with all my heart I had a time machine and could just not marry him, or anyone for that matter. Do I love him or even want to love him? I don't know. I can't see past where I am at right now. I can remember times where I felt amazing hope, and that as I saw changes in him I really opened up my heart and loved with everything I had. But it always came crashing down into a reality of rejection and betrayal. I don't see those times of hope as real anymore. I seem them as self deception.

If he were to change would it change my outlook? I don't want to even think about it. He is an as-is package and I can't live in the world of "maybe some days" and "what-ifs" anymore. There is a part of me that says if he tried then I would try again too. But we are both pretty far gone.

Clean - No, it wasn't the couples program, it was the stuff for individuals. Sorry about the confusion.


Sorry to be such a downer. Seriously, this was supposed to be a good post about Rugga's progress! Didn't mean to hijack it."
posted at 07:40:24 on March 7, 2014 by Anonymous
What if you were to change?    
"I totally get not being able to wait for someone else to change. And if that someone else is abusive, it's time to leave.

But what if God could change YOU to love and desire your man exactly as he is, including his painful past mistakes, his dishonesty, his other imperfections, and his current unfeeling coldness? If God could fill your heart with a desire to be with the person you are with, would you want him to fill you with that love and desire, or would you reject it, because you have already determined you don't want it?"
posted at 10:34:02 on March 7, 2014 by beclean
Just watched this...    
"I had never seen this Mormon Message until now, but it seems somewhat applicable. Like the other Prodigal, I need to focus on me."
posted at 12:47:55 on March 7, 2014 by beclean
12 Steps    
"Clean, isn't that the message of the 12 steps? I know it isn't about changing him. I know I need to change me. That is where I was before when things were good for me. He kept relapsing but it didn't effect me the same way. I was able to just lay it down and keep moving on. In a way, I even know it works and know how to get there again. I just don't know that I want to get there... I am just so tired. So very, very tired.

Guys I appreciate the help. I really do. I just feel like maybe I shouldn't have brought it up if I am not willing to do anything about it. Now that it is out there I kinda want to take it back. Can we chalk this one up to Maddy being depressed and venting a little?
posted at 17:03:58 on March 7, 2014 by Maddy
We can - with one last "pot-shot"    
"You know we love you, Maddy. We pray for you, and we wish we could take your burden upon us and help you directly. We wish we knew you personally and could bring you cookies. I promise to bring someone else in my ward cookies this next week...just hoping it's you, or someone in need like you.

I will let this all drop and as if you never brought it up, if you'll let me take this last pot-shot in love:

You said, "That is where I was before when things were good for me....I...know it works...I just don't know that I want to get there....I am just so tired...[and] depressed."

Why would you want to stay where you are, at tired and depressed? Why wouldn't you want to take the steps you know will bring you back to "good"?

You must kinda want to be good again, or you wouldn't be poking around here, sharing your troubles.

We want you to be "good" again, too. You were such a happy strength to others when you were good, and now we want to return the favor, if possible.

How to be "good":
"Wherefore, my beloved sister, Maddy, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the daughter of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this HOPE; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen." Moroni 7:48 See the previous verses, too."
posted at 18:02:01 on March 7, 2014 by beclean
One day at a time Maddy    
"That is all I will say. That applies regardless of what decisions you take now and in the future.

No worries about the shift in focus. I was just happy to post an update.

I will pray for you and the family."
posted at 23:12:06 on March 7, 2014 by ruggaexpat

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" Is it possible to reclaim a life that through reckless abandon has become so strewn with garbage that it appears that the person is unforgivable? Or what about the one who is making an honest effort but has fallen back into sin so many times that he feels that there is no possible way to break the seemingly endless pattern? Or what about the person who has changed his life but just can't forgive himself?The Atonement of Jesus Christ is available to each of us. His Atonement is infinite. It applies to everyone, even you. It can clean, reclaim, and sanctify even you. That is what infinite means—total, complete, all, forever. "

— Shayne M. Bowen

General Conference October 2006