You tell me: Will you go to the Celestial Kingdom, or Not?
By mint
3/17/2013 8:32:15 PM
Do you believe, at the rate your going now, that you will have the qualifications to enter the Celestial Kingdom.


Sun, Moon, or Stars    
"I don't. But I don't think I ever have even when I was temple worthy. But that is just me."
posted at 20:37:11 on March 17, 2013 by stayingclean
i dont    
"Never have had "the qualifications" for the Celestial Kingdom, and I never will.

But Jesus does."
posted at 01:39:42 on March 18, 2013 by beclean
No idea    
"But, all I can do is my best. But gotta make sure it is my very best."
posted at 08:13:02 on March 18, 2013 by g1rlie
people...NO ONE qualifies    
"It's this mentality that we must meet the qualifications, be good, do our best, etc., that makes most of us addicts. We're trying to overcome the world ourselves, when there is no possible way we ever can.

Faith. In. Jesus. Be perfected In HIM. Not in anything we do.

So, at the same moment that I testify NONE of us can possibly EVER qualify for life in God's presence, I also proclaim that EVERY ONE of US--you who have posted you might not--DOES qualify, because of Jesus. HE qualifies, and He lets us borrow his ID to get past the bouncers and into the party. In other words, we take upon ourselves His name, drink His blood, eat His flesh, and get born again in His waters--that makes us His children. We covenant with Him in the temple, he washes the blood and dirt from us, annoints us his queen, and clothes us in His royal covering; that makes us His bride (and we end up being worse than a whore in that role, but he deals with it and loves us still, see Ezek 16). When we get to the Pearly Gates, or to veil, we don't flash OUR ID and request to be let in, we flash HIS ID: His name, His blood & body, His image in our countenance, His clothing, even His scars.

He offers us His ID. We just need to get ourselves comfortable with the idea that we can use His identity. That means we need to get super close to Him and realize He loves us that much. His ID is "light," not cluttered down with all our garbage.

We've gotta stop thinking that somehow our lives must qualify, if only we can get perfect.

Too late for that. Our lives will NEVER qualify for Celestial glory.

But his does. And that's enough for all of us to get in. That's how he sets us free. We just need to turn to Him; surrender ourselves to Him; cast our burden on Him.

I bet we all KNOW that, or we've heard it, but do we BELIEVE it? It's not about us. It's about Him."
posted at 09:29:13 on March 18, 2013 by beclean
"Beclean. The only times in my life I've found sobriety and serenity have been when I held that concept as close to my heart as I possibly could. You nailed it. Thank you.

I wanted to post one verse but the whole thing is just so...ah!, awesome. Paul rules.

Romans 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."
posted at 12:51:05 on March 18, 2013 by they_speak
Well very different answers    
"I always like different perspectives. Its boring when everyone says the same thing.

To staying: Ya I think we all feel that way, to a degree. But there is a difference from the worthiness aspect and the "works" aspect. In one of the general conference talks,the speaker said something like, if we could simply be worthy to go to the temple, that would be more than enough to save us. Something to that degree. Basically saying that's a huge accomplishment, especially comparing it to today's world!

But when we are worthy, i guess then its like, well am i DOING enough. And those are great thoughts because it pushes us to do better. Last Sunday our teacher explained it great. He said, we are save by grace but are exalted by our works.

To Kickit: That's great! I'm striving for that and can't wait for that feeling.

To girlie: Well, no offense but I dont think that's enough. And I do t mean you personally, but the idea of "I'll do my best." Because how do we ever know we did our best? Just because we say so? When we look back and examine our choices, can we honestly say we did our best or are there areas where we can say "oh ya I totally knew I was going the wrong way there but did it anyway." The idea is nice, but doing our best mentality is pretty flawed. Again, I do t mean you personally just the philosophy of it.

To BeClean: I can see where your coming from, but with all the information you added it got too clouded. I tried making the question as simple as possible, and used the word qualifications because there are qualifications, one being "as clean as snow" because God cannot be in the presence of sin.

But, the reason I disagree with you is your saying "NONE of us can possibly EVER qualify for life in God's presence." That's ridiculous. Why would he do that to us. My question didnt say "without Jesus Christ on the equation." Of course we are all away of the amazing blessing of the atonement. Without it, yes we would never be in the presence of god. But, Jesus has given us the opportunity to use it!

So, lets take KickIt it for example. He says he believe he's going on a good rate to have it the celestial kingdom. Not quite there yet, but thinks he'll make it. Awesome! Why can't he say that, according to you? If he is keeping out of trouble, living the gospel, is temple worthy, isn't he going at a great rate? And if he slips up, the Atonement is there!

And honestly, if there was one thing I would strive to be perfect in, it would be To be worthy for God and have the qualifications to go to the celestial kingdom. Isnt that all He asks, endure. All endure in that direction.

To Theyspeak: Ya, I'll have to read it a fee more times because I'm weak in the scipture study. But, i agree with the grace, atonement, Jesus, all of that of course. In mu initial question, i didnt discredit any of that. I just think its interesting when we have those quiet moments and gink, am i good enough.

And you know what, some of us aren't. Gods law is to judge, and if the judgment were today some of us wouldn't make it. That's not me saying that, that's what prophets have been saying and I'm not am exception. There are qualifications, and we have to meet them to make it the the celestial kingdom."
posted at 20:47:35 on March 18, 2013 by mint
Beclean's comments    
"I believe what Beclean said about the Atonement. 100%

I will never qualify. Never. But Christ's grace is my hope and my salvation.

Anyway, am I good enough? Ha! That is funny. No. And I never will be. But Christ is 'good enough'. And if we really think about that...I mean really, really ponder would make us weak in the knees with gratitude."
posted at 22:08:25 on March 18, 2013 by maddy
Never qualify?    
"Of course we can. Not of ourselves.... but with Him we CAN qualify. That's what you mean right?"
posted at 22:50:22 on March 18, 2013 by itstime
"If I have anything to do with my final exam, I will fail that test.

When I get to that day, I am handing the pen to the Son of Man. He will take the entire exam for me, and I will get into the Celestial Kingdom. I won't do a single bit of it, except hand the pen to him. I won't even put my name on the paper. It will be his name. (Unless my pride gets in the way, and I think I can do this, and I put my own name down, in which case, I fail.)

I will make it to the Celestial Kingdom, because I will not be judged. He will. That is because I have complete faith in him to take the test for me. And he will take it for each of you, too, if you let him.

That's how I see it."
posted at 23:33:20 on March 18, 2013 by beclean
I guess we think what we think    
"BeClean is entitled to think he can NEVER qualify. I disagree. If gods says we can be with Him through the atonement, and that qualifies us, then why can't we? He's not lying. idk why there's some type of disagreement on that. Unless your talking about the process of getting there. Which I agree with you 100%. But I'm talking about the end.

At my rate, I won't make it. I need to make real changes before I even begin to meet the minimum requirements, the Atonement through Christ being a major component."
posted at 23:54:28 on March 18, 2013 by mint
"I think you're missing my point. Or at least, my parables are not making my feelings clear. Sorry."
posted at 00:12:28 on March 19, 2013 by beclean
How honestly are you trying?    
"I think what matters ultimately is how much of an honest effort are we making? Are we willing to sacrifice comfort and feeling right and pretending like we understand how things "really are" in order to accept that God knows what's best? Are we honestly trying - even unsuccessfully - to break free from our sins, never giving up even if we occasionally fail?

I think that's what matters most, and I think if we are making steady progress toward that, then yes, we'll make it to the top."
posted at 00:39:14 on March 19, 2013 by johnroberts
"I'm picking up what you're putting down, and I'm on the same page."
posted at 00:40:03 on March 19, 2013 by johnroberts
"If you have anything to do with your final exam you will fail? We have TONS to do with our final exam. I don't get it. I must be missing your point. And if I am, I do apologize. I am not trying to be arguementative or anything like that.... I could care less about winning any arguement or even being in one. (I don't even know how to spell the word) I keep getting a read line under it. hahaha But we have TONS to do with our "test".... Are you kidding?? I admit that of "ourselves" we will fail... we without question need and must have Him to win... but we have to do our part... otherwise ALL would pass! Why even have a lower kingdom? ALL would march right in to the Celestial world and be with God... but we know THAT won't be the case and why???? Because they failed to allow Christ to change them... So... ALLOWING Christ to change us .......IS qualifying!!!! That's the way I see it.... (of course there is a lot more to it... but I am tired of typing) hahaha"
posted at 22:57:35 on March 19, 2013 by itstime
Not everyone will pass    
"I'm happy to answer a question.

Not everyone will pass the test, even with Jesus offering to take it for anyone who wants him to. For any number of reasons, most will never willingly give Jesus the pen and ask him to take the exam for them.

Perhaps they don't trust him (faith), or they think they can do it alone (pride), or they don't like the terms (we belong to him and can no longer return to our favorite God--sin), or they would rather stay in the telestial world, where they are comfortable (because it is the most like earth), or they think handing him the pen is too easy, and exaltation should be much more difficult, or they have just tried to control every aspect of their lives, and they aren't about to give up control now (more pride and faith issues). We need to practice giving him control now--we need to give him control now and stop trying to control everything--so that we won't mess everything up on test day.

Faith. In. Jesus. I promise, exaltation ALL boils down to the true doctrine of faith. We are exalted entirety because of Him and our faith in Him.

(By the way, if a word is underlined as being misspelled, that probably means you can right-click on it, and it will tell you how to spell it. I can't spell, either, but I'm grateful the computer can. Ha! It feels like there's another allegory in that! The solution to our spelling problems is right in front of us, and it's very simple, but for any number of reasons, some people still choose to spell wrong.)"
posted at 23:17:26 on March 19, 2013 by beclean
""Faith. In. Jesus. I promise, exaltation ALL boils down to the true doctrine of faith. We are exalted entirety because of Him and our faith in Him."

After all we have done first."
posted at 23:31:32 on March 19, 2013 by Anonymous
ok... thanks....    
"Thats better... thanks.... I'm glad you said: "AND our faith in Him"...... in the next to the last paragraph, cause FAITH is an ACTION word.... and so we are doing something.... and you mentioned "test day".... aren't we in TEST DAY now??? I always was taught that life is a test... as a matter of fact the Temple teaches that.... "And we will allow lucifer our common enemy to tempt them....and we will SEE if they....." ...etc etc... Anyway.... maybe your talking about "judgement day" as "test day"..... Thanks Be clean... I gotta hit the hay.. thanks for the thoughts... I need to re-read them though.... but not tonight... tired.... ttyl :)"
posted at 23:42:03 on March 19, 2013 by itstime
"Is it that "after all we can do" is always assumed to mean "after all good things we can do"? What "can we do" really? What does that mean? I see no reason to believe that interpretation is any more valid than "after all we can fail to do". In fact in light of every other scripture that is emphatic about the futility of trusting in the arm of flesh and our own righteousness I'd say it's more valid. After I'm done spinning my wheels in a worthless show of self righteousness, a paltry effort to earn grace, finally I arrive at step one. Then, I am primed for grace. It's always by grace that I am saved . My works flow from grace. They don't earn it.

Really for me the discussion is some what moot. Coming to the perfect conclusion on these topics never brought me repentance or the grace I needed day to day. I'm after what works. For me, relying on grace - works.

Ephesians 2:4-10

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
posted at 02:45:09 on March 20, 2013 by they_speak
theyspeak nailed it!    
"He said, "It's always by grace that I am saved . My works flow from grace. They don't earn it."

That is so true and something we only seem to learn from experience, my friend. After trying ALL I CAN DO and realizing it only takes me further from Him, I surrender.

My sponsor asked me something along the lines of "Why do you insist on trying to fix the car before you take it to the mechanic?"

theyspeak, once again, you put into words-perfectly- what I was thinking.
I have no "works" to give until I am experiencing grace. (That can seem so contrary to what we are taught growing up) I did not realize that ALL of my so-called good works were self-serving before I reached the depths of despair and discovered grace. Thanks, Bro! "
posted at 19:12:06 on March 20, 2013 by Anonymous

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"Strength comes from uplifting music, good books, and feasting from the scriptures. Since the Book of Mormon was to come forth “when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth” (Morm. 8:31), study of that book in particular will fortify us."

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General Conference, October 1988