Meds and Docs (any suggestions? need help.)
By they_speak
10/8/2012 9:58:02 PM
After over a decade of using diet, sleep, and exercise to medicate for my 3 struggles (ADD Anxiety/depression addiction) I'm finally considering getting in contact with psychiatrist to talk meds. I recently started taking Vyvanse which is the baby of Aderal which was the baby of dexidrin which I took from age 6 to 18. It's seems to be working okay but I'm just worried it will bum me out long term. My doctor swears those are not side effects but long story short there is no doubt that a lot of ADD meds that i've taken make me suicidal with in months sometimes days. So, i'm experimenting. I need a boost for school.

Since then I've been researching OCD which a lot of professionals camp sex addiction in with. I noticed a lot of the meds they proscribe for it are typical SSRI's like prozac and Zoloft. I took Zoloft for like a minute back in the day which in retrospect I didn't need. I was just bummed my dad was gay and my mom moved in with her boyfriend and I couldn't stop masturbating to go on a mission. Nothing abnormal about that response given the circumstances I'd think. My depression has always been pretty mild (unless I take Aderal lol). Usually a pretty happy dude. For the most part my anxiety has been very manageable with exercise. Right after my mission I had a period where I was having panic attacks. It was horrifying and I'm glad I know what I know now to deal with it and don't have those at all anymore. However through it all I realized...I've NEVER been sober very long. Could all these things be related??? God!, I just want to get dialed in. Bang on all cylinders. I noticed as I looked at symptoms of OCD and anxiety I really related with a lot of the symptoms. For example "Anxiety is the most prominent symptom of OCD. For example, you may have an overall sense that something terrible will happen if you don't follow through with a particular ritual, such as repeatedly checking to see whether the stove is on. If you don't perform the ritual, you may have immediate anxiety or a nagging sense of incompleteness." The nagging sense of incompleteness. Oh man! Just substitute check stove with "look for inappropriate sex and sex outlets" When ever I'm sober for more then a week I start feeling this impending doom. A nagging sense of incompleteness. Even if I'm not directly obsessing over sex. It's like a monster in the closet. Even if i've done good at ignoring it, surrendering it, exercising it, praying it, what's still there...lurking.

Anyway, I'm just willing to try new things because this just isn't #$%;ldfjk lkdj working. Maybe I'm lying to myself but I swear I've been genuine about the Steps. I've worked them. I've called my sponsors I've went to meetings. Perfect? No. But I've done my best...I need more than my best (drugs maybe) to elicit Gods help I guess. Pff now I'm just being cynical. Uhg.

Any advice on a good Psychiatrists in SLC or Ogden area? Any experience with ADD OCD or anxiety and depression? I'm grasping at straws here. It's just not working so whatever I guess. I guess I keep saying I guess and talking all wishy washy because I swear I'm fine (outside of addiction) and am kind of bummed, like i'm giving up or cheating or something, but maybe that's part of my surrender process I don't know? To realize I can't do it (alone) without drugs lol.

I know I post way to damn much. I'm sorry (I made a blog though so probably wont need to write here as much anymore). But can any of you with experience here share your thoughts? I'd dig that. Thanks. Peace.


"Does the Vyvance wake you up or calm you down? Can you go to sleep at night if you take it in the morning?

We all "ebb and flow" but do you "EBB and FLOW" from being thrilled about life and can't get enough done in a day, to depressed and don't want to get out of bed?

You probably already know why I am asking. The first question, I wanted to kinda test if you do in fact have that ADD, in which case the meds would slow your mind down. For everyone else, the meds are essentially speed. For persons with ADD/ADHD, they have the opposite effect.

The second question was sort of a question gauging whether you have symptoms of Bipolar Disorder. This would explain a lot if it has been nearly impossible for you to experience any long terms "sobriety". Many people with this illness are misdiagnosed as having an addiction.

You are right. Addiction is closest to the anxiety disorders, like OCD. Some of us have an extra helping of the anxiety which can complicate our efforts to get clean.

I am really glad that you are seeking answers, my friend. I admire that. If you suspect there might be something else in play, you're probably right. I just hope you find a good psychiatrist. There are so many quacks out there. I work with them. There are some great ones, though. You'll know because, trust me, you're smarter than most of them. The good ones are collaborative with YOU leading the treatment team. Because you are the only real expert on you."
posted at 23:10:15 on October 8, 2012 by Anonymous
I say go to the Professionals    
"The gospel helps, no doubt. But sometimes therapy and psychiatrists are an aid that the Lord has also provided. Maybe not directly, but you know what I mean. Good luck man, I dont mind you writing. I feel like this site is dying, its sad. That's why I wrote a post asking "Why we write here?" because it just seems different. I heard Derek did as just a hobby/charity type deal. I haven't even heard from him in a while. Its amazing to read last lost, see people progress and feel good. Their highs and lows, but then suddenly, they just disappear. Its sad, very sad. Some of the stories/journals are so amazing. I dont know if there is another site where Mormons talk about this and has so many stories. I dont know, its sad. I hate to see this site dwindle, but i feel the only way it can survive is improvement. Sigh, good luck with your meds."
posted at 23:30:26 on October 8, 2012 by moronidenovo
"im on medication for depression which i am at 300mg of max out there. its a turbo prozac type kills sex drive like raid kills ants...i personally think brake-cleaner is the best insect killer as is kills em and gets it done...
i have ED now because of it, so trying to "perform" would be an issue...(i hv no spouse nor gf, and im trying to be good so its not an issue right now) how ever there is 3 pills to try for ED (erectile dysfunction) And there is an injection out there too...

theres lots of stuff out there and i think it can help and do much good...but we should keep in mind jesus is the healer...the one true healer...meds can assist...but i dont believe heal. in my mind we are fighting 2 front...a spiritual war with ddemons + our natural man with that it makes everything diffucult to work with.

i would just incourage you to look at the idea of having your nature changed, because with out that its going to be really tuff to go with out or be healed...does that make sense?

ive said this before, i believe people that struggle with this issues suffer from a lack-of-love in their life...a healthy love. support, acceptance, etc...give it some thought...

well i never did the 12 steps...asi saw it, didnt seem to work for me, because it didnt account for human nature, which is the problem in the first place. not taking anything away from it at all, i know there is much good that does happen. just for me, i didnt feel that was going to be the route that would work for me.

i focused on changing human nature in prayer, fasting, and other bahavioural techniques, and i have had some success now. there also has been other things i have found that helped to, but everyone is different so i dont know if my method would work for everyone else...hard to say...but its a slow process to say the least.

its different for me now. im at day 7, and i dnt feel afriad. thats a big one there...fear...there was a change over me on wednesday last week...hard to explain..

i guess i can share more if u want idk...i really dont consider myself special or unique...ii think we all have simular problems. do u want to know more? or should i blog that in aother thread?"
posted at 23:47:55 on October 8, 2012 by skyteamst90
I'm all ears    
"Skyteam. Always welcome to say whatever you feel on my thread."
posted at 01:39:29 on October 9, 2012 by They_Speak
"I've been thinking about your post all night. First, I appreciate it. I've really tried to think - with Vyvance it's kind of both. I feel more energy but my mind feels calmer. Less scattered. I also took in the past a GABA supplement with some vitamins and minerals and fish oils that are suppose to help too. I notice big time when I haven't taken those in a long time and then I do I feel WAY more mellow. Less fragile. Like somebody turned down a static radio in my brain. I say WAY but it's subtle. But oh so deep breath refreshing. I know GABA is an inhibitor as opposed to the meds that work with dopamine which is excitatory so I don't know. I just don't know. I can sleep if I want on it. I'm less likely to loss my keys four hundred times a day. The thing that's weird though is I don't fit some of the prevalent ADD criteria I read about. Like I remember everything I read and have a superior memory...except when it comes to where I put my keys. I don't know if that matters. But some times I do feel hyper focused not hypo focused with or without drugs. I've definitly wondered if I'm not ADD. I just know getting through school as easy as learning is for me is so damn hard.

On the bipolar note. That's what really been messing with my world tonight! Can't stop thinking about it. At first I just brushed it off. One time my mom mentioned it and it was like water off a ducks back to me. Then a psychologist put it on the table and I swatted it right out of the park to be spoken of no more. Not, because I'm resistant to the idea but because I was just so sure it's not me. I knew a person with bipolar. In fact I had an affair with her. And she was nuuuuuuts! Like howell at the moon crazy. One month the most awesome fun person in the world the next crying for no reason and saying she didn't care if her kids died. The fu?? But then, you got me thinking. Really trying to give the idea a fair hearing. It was weird how my life's experiences kind of started unfolding in a light like i'd never noticed. I don't know how to explain it. Like slow revelation/inspiration (i still haven't concluded or interpreted anything) enlightening my mind. I always thought bipolar didn't apply to me because I always had a valid reason, an event, or something, lack of sleep, lack of food, lack of love, whatever, that I could point to as the cause of my tail spins. Tonight however I really the events precede the tail spin or do the tail spins precede or cause the events i'm always excepting as the cause?

The first thing that caught my mind, in fact the only reason I even gave the idea of bipolar a second thought, was my recent job I quit/almost got fired from. I was king of that place! There is no reason I should have ever been even close to being fire. If I may be so arrogant. And I think many would agree - I was the most beloved employee they had. When I was on fire man I was on fire. I uplifted everyone had energy for days. But every so often I'd lull. Like bad enough and long enough it wasn't just your average I'm not motivated. My managers would always say "dude, when you're on you're on. but when you're off..." It was kind of depressing because everybody knew I should move up because I was ten times the leader most my leaders were. p.s. I know bipolar's are known for bravado and being cocky when their manic is on the up. I'm not meaning to be here. I just ruled that job. Annnnyway, then in April I had a talk with one of my managers that really bothered me. He didn't say anything to bad but I just felt I could see the writing on the wall "dead end job". The next three month I was like a different person and late all the time till it almost got me fired. At the time and until I just thought it was because I lost my focus of helping people and my motivation for the job. But, you got me thinking - I'm not sure my dip was just like your average dip. I mean I DIPED. Even if I decided I needed a different job I could have still been a decent employee. But it was like I couldn't for a few months. Then I thought about my previous lull about 6 months earlier. I blamed a situation with a girl that I got a little friendly with and started obsessing over. I thought that was what caused my huge dip in my work. That dip also helped with getting me almost fired this round because I was late a lot in that stint and they took that into account this last run. Then I started thinking about my whole life! It's like it's always been like this and i've never seen it. I mean I've seen it. And hated it. But I've never SEEN it. I always could find a reason I got off track. This event. That sin. That person. That failure. My mission - exact same scenario. My mission president even kind of threw his hand up and said to one of my friends who was AP and told me everything "I don't know why Elder Code cant quit figure it out. It's like he almost gets it. And then falls." It's like I'd be almost there. Almost a great missionary and then bam! Loser. Gettin up late. Not working. Whatever. I always blamed masturbation and laziness. And the thing that came to mind tonight was "if I always am able to kind of trace my steps back to what supposedly seems to be the cause of my falls then why does it always still take so long to dust yourself off and get back at it?" School is the same thing. Ill have straight A's doing fine and then (I always in the past blamed porn and masturbation there too but right now I'm starting to wonder) BAM!, I just, can't, do it. Like I hit a wall. Same with my relationship with my wife. I'll be rolling things will seem to be working and then BAM! everything is turned on it's head and I don't even know if I want to be married (I always keep that to myself - it's honestly my deepest shame).

I still have my doubts. I don't know that I'm freak out stoked or freak out bummed like what I know bipolars to be. I think most people think I'm pretty normal. I'm pretty easily exited and fun to be around I think most people would say (freak I've really complimented myself a lot on this one huh. lame). But I'm just trying to say what I think is. I'm pretty wild I guess. Not over the top...maybe a little. I don't know! I don't know. I guess I am but I always just liked how I am when the chips are up. I get a rise out of people. But damn when the chips are down.

Is it possible to have an mild case of bipolar? Like mild enough that anyone who knows you besides like my wife and my mom would think I was pretty normal and seem to function pretty normal in society? Like I'm almost sane? I don't know. I want to though.

I super sketched on drugs. The OCD ones didn't seem to intimidating. But I don't know anything about bipolar ones. I don't want any to make me more nuts. I know they can too. Freaks me out.

I'll tell ya what...bipolar sure is almost the last thing I wanna be. Really bums me out thinking maybe I could be. Makes me want to cry. Except that i'm as cold as ice and never cry. Sucks."
posted at 05:16:58 on October 9, 2012 by they_Speak
"I wish you and I could take this to email. I guess I'll just start signing my anonymous posts.

Yes, It is possible to have a mild case of Bipolar Disorder. I should've mentioned that. It is called Cyclothimia. Please don't be bummed about the idea of having one of these disorders. The reason I brought it up is because you have other characteristics which threw up a few hints. The multi-dimensional intellect was my first clue. Some of the greatest artists suffer from similar issues.

The good news it...whatever it is, you have already learned to function well. (For the most part?) If you decide to see a shrink and try a few med please be patient with the process. It is not an exact science. There are several meds out there and a person will usually need to try a few before they find the one that provides the beneficial balance that will help. I am really NOT supposed to give out advice like this but I am doing it anyway because I admire the hell out of you. You're posts have gotten me through some faith-challenging moments over the past few years.

I should also say my closest friend is Bipolar. He lives a pretty normal life except he is the most talented writer I have ever read. I am not kidding this guy has more talent in his left ball than I could ever hope you gain in a lifetime. I guess we have to take the good with the bad. The way you think reminds me of how he thinks. I see things on maybe two levels if I am lucky. He sees six or seven and then he HEARS, SMELLS, and TASTES them. He has found a balance and is happy.

You may or may not have this issue. But if you do, please don't let the label upset you. Yes, I have known the same people with Biploar Disorder like the girl you mentioned. But I have met more examples of people who manage it well and are happy and successful.
posted at 10:21:10 on October 9, 2012 by Anonymous
You can email me at    
"totalbogus at live dot com (my bogus email) and then I'll give you my real one if that works. I'd give my actual email out here but I guess we're all being more cautious about that stuff or whatever. Or if it's cause of your profession that you can't email that's cool.

Thanks for all the kind words man. I'm glad to know my posts have helped someone. And thanks for the,.. wisdom. Definitely not medical advice. But good wisdom :) I would ask more questions but I can google them and do some of my own research.

Just one question about your friend which I'm guessing you have the liberty to speak on. Do the meds inhibit his creativity along with the crazy? I guess the truth is if i'm honest with myself I've become rather fond of some aspect of my crazy. My idiosyncrasies. I worry that the way I think may get watered down. There's a certain art and spice in my suffering I guess. Or so I believe. Like John Forbes Nash the nobel prize winning paranoid schizophrenic put it "At the present time I seem to be thinking rationally again in the style that is characteristic of scientists. However this is not entirely a matter of joy as if someone returned from physical disability to good physical health. One aspect of this is that rationality of thought imposes a limit on a person's concept of his relation to the cosmos." I worry about similar things in my own sphere."
posted at 13:43:41 on October 9, 2012 by they_speak
I'm New    
"I'm new. My advice is to stay away from pshrinks. It's nothing but pseudo science and those medications can kill you. I was on Seroquel for major depression, anxiety and nightmares. That stuff messed me up so bad it nearly killed me. I was on it for ten years and it damaged my heart. It never did help my depression or anxiety and my nightmares increased. When I finally came off it, I puked for 6 weeks and I had horrible RLS in my legs, chest arms, pretty much all over. I've been off it for a year now and it is still affecting me. Seroquel wasn't even originally made for depression. It's for schizophrenics and bi-polar's. I took at least ten different anti-depressants and none of them worked. I finally dealt with my childhood and got rid of the problem."
posted at 06:03:07 on January 16, 2013 by Anonymous
Kick It is that you?    
"Lol, you rascal... I just say that cause you said some things that sound like Kick It. If you're not, sorry (to both of you). If you are, I had to laugh when I saw "nightmares" cause I thought "well, hell yes he has 'nightmares' he likes watching the fuzzin Exorcist! Eff that noise."

Who ever you are I would ask you to reconsider the notion that "it's nothing but pseudo science". That's just not true. Because it's not classical physics ("hard science") doesn't mean it's not science. The method is used to draw conclusions based on the best available information/evidence and it is in a constant state of flux as new information is always being made available. I say that having had a sister commit suicide 3 days after changing her meds. I'm aware of medicines shortcomings. But I also know it changes a lot of lives for the better and has eased a great deal of suffering. And far more importantly it's getting more and more effective and showing TONS of future promise. The future is gonna be awesome.

I think the biggest part of the problem right now is not with the science but with the patients. We are taught (culturally) that doctors (anyone in a authority really) know all so we just do whatever they say. I think the relationship must be as S. said "collaborative with YOU leading the treatment team. Because you are the only real expert on you." Had that been more strongly emphasized I might still have a sister.

One last thing, it's interesting you mention dealing with your childhood getting rid of the problem and not the drugs. Did you know brain scans show that wether a patient benefits from meds or psycho analysis/therapy the physiological/biological changes in the brain are the same? So for example when a person taking a serotonin re-uptake inhibitor shows improvement they can look at the brain and they will find changes in HPA axis (the stress response mechanism of the brain). One being more glucocorticoid receptors found on the hippocampus (which serves as a feedback mechanism to the stress response to calm a person down when the stressful stimuli has ceased). The same thing will be shown for a person who benefits from therapy (or dealing with their childhood etc. how ever they go about it). By the way, childhood trauma does show significant atrophy of the glucocorticoid proteins on the hippocampus which would explain a lot of our problems with dealing with stress. But, you probably already knew that if you spent a decade looking into this stuff.

There are many ways to skin a cat. I just don't think any one way should be thrown out if it's proving beneficial for some people. Let's find out why and gather more information :) I <3 science."
posted at 11:11:36 on January 16, 2013 by they_speak
Big Pharm    
"Well, I am very suspicious about how many of these meds are "proven" to help people. If I remember correctly, Big Pharm needs only to have a med pass a couple of trials, even if most of the trials for a drug failed. Big Pharm is in the business of making money, period. They don't really care about us. The industry can "prove" whatever is most profitable to "prove". And did you know they constantly invent new "diseases" to "treat"?"
posted at 12:54:53 on January 16, 2013 by Anonymous
I don't know about your final claim    
"But I do agree with much of the rest. Few people I know have more hatred in their vanes for big pharm than me. But it's a socio economic problem not a science problem. And I think only further validates S' point that panients need to be very prudent when approaching any of their medical issues."
posted at 13:24:42 on January 16, 2013 by they_speak
"It can be considered to be a science thing if you consider that if ote is profitable to prove something is true, Big Pharm can and will prove it to be true. They also suppress cures for cancer. Why? Greed. They want us sick."
posted at 14:09:21 on January 16, 2013 by Anonymous
Thank you Kevin Tredeau    
"I mean,.. I'm no doctor."
posted at 15:15:44 on January 16, 2013 by they_speak
Big Pharm is right on!    
"I am so sorry about your sister!

Antipsychotics are really just tranquillisers that may be needed for those that are violent and out of control! However they are not good for the brain at all. What antipsychotics do is inhibbit the brains natural flow of dopamine (our God given motivation chemical) by locking into the neurotransmitter that releases the brains (God given) natural flow of dopamine.

What happens next is the brain changes and becomes super-sensitive to dopamine due to it being inibbited from its natural flow. So when the meds no longer work or someone stops taking them or forgets, the brain reacts to the release of the dopamine in a negative way and sends the patient back into a psychosis.

As a result of going back into a psychosis the patient is taken back to hospital and is given a higher dose of antipsychotic or is made to have intramuscular injections and the whole cycle starts again. (Hospital-Meds-Home-Hospital-Meds-Home) Most of these antipsychotics and antidepressants when found to have real negative side affects, get sent back to big pharm and few changes are made (sometimes none) and then they are put back on the market with a new name and have become the new silver bullet in psychiatry.

Antidepressants stop the (God given) natural re-uptake of seratonine. As a result the brain becomes flooded with seratonine (our natural calming chemical). So when the antidepressants stop working which they have a tendancy to do and the excess seratonine is gone, patience feel anything but calm! They can become suicidal!

Nutrition and nutritional deficiencies play a big part in neuorological problems along with other contributing factors that I will not mention as it has caused to many problems already.

However you can google "The case against antipsychotic drugs: a 50-year record of doing more harm than good" Also the Western Price Foundations GAPs. There are heaps more if you are interested.

Good Luck and God Bless!"
posted at 03:14:49 on January 17, 2013 by Aussie
"Since I do not see things the same way as you do, I'm being likened unto a convicted felon. Nice."
posted at 06:21:12 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
Sweeping Generalizations...    
"proceed with caution.
Aussie, your viewpoint is well-informed but it saddens me all the same. A person with the disease of schizophrenia cannot "eat" their way into wellness. Yes, anti psychotics are not an exact science but the benefits are overwhelmingly better than the alternative. Some diseases of the brain are absolutely manageable with today's medications. To theorize otherwise is so irresponsible and prideful especially when it is not YOU that is the one suffering with the disease. It is easy to assume we know what other people need. God provided these medications as a blessing to those that suffer from diagnoses like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, ADHD, etc.

Aussie, I understand where you are coming from but you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. It is not an "all or nothing" deal. I have seen people's lives saved by medications. It is a nice theory but it is not reality. And "big pharm" is one thing, but you are forgetting about organizations like NAMH and NIH that fund research for the right reasons-to find cures for people that suffer."
posted at 09:30:04 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
"You broke it down perfectly! You always have a better way of saying what I'm thinking. :)"
posted at 09:43:07 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
"You're being likened unto a convicted felon because you're parroting his infomercial and the like.

I said I don't disagree with your big pham conspiracy theory and still you want to argue absolutes. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". Your original absolute statement of "nothing but pseudo science" is hog wash. Sorry it's not true. And if you want to continue an attempt of proving that go ahead. But any ne'erdowell can see that in order to do so he'd have to prove ALL of it worthless. Hope you have a lot of time. I just think it's funny because everything you've used to prove your original statement I, for the most part, agree with,..but it still doesn't make your point true.

Aussie, I agree. But these are case situations. Even my sister. I took anti depressants for about a year and half a little over 10 years ago. Paxil made me think the devil was in my room. Zoloft worked great. I'm glad I was able to take. Like I explained to my first companion on my mission "I feel more like me on them. Not less." I got off them about half way through my mission even though they tell all the missionaries NOT to do that I just knew I was done and okay. And, I was right. I was the same off them as I was on them (at the time. who knows now). My older brother has taken Prozak for probably 20 years and swears by them. My little brother, similar to me - he just needs his crossfit and he's fine. Doing more harm than good is debatable. However my point is that it shouldn't stop the science of pushing forward. To new discovery. It's not like some fat cat smoking a cigar came up with the bright money making idea of SSRI's. They were stumbled upon by doctors and scientist,..because they worked. Are they perfect? No. But have they served as a spring board for the pursuit of more understanding and something better? I believe they have.

I also believe that nutrition plays a huge role in minor (and even major) mental illnesses. Hence, my first paragraph of my original post. My mom was a newage-hippy and all about alternative health/healing. I'm personal friends with one of the more well known herb retailers here in Utah (utah I believe at one time was the biggest herb distributor in the world). I go to vegan pot lucks the first Thursday of the month full of weirdo's deep into this stuff. If people want to know about fasting and juicing I'm their guy. I'm studying neurology in school. My nephew has sensory integration disorder so bad they thought he had autism and his mom (my sister) knows more about the nervous system than I do having studied it in college. You and I have probably read a lot of the same books (including Natural Cures they don't want you to know about :D ). I hate capitalism and the health system in America. Yet, my closest brother is a surgeon and my wife is a nurse. Do I know everything? Not hardly. But I just mention this to illustrate that i'm not completely uniformed on both sides of the issue and I've been boarder line inundated with all the stuff you're mentioning. And again, I don't know how I can say this more emphatically, I do not disagree with you. I just also know that when Steve Job's was asked about how he handled his cancer he expressed lament for not having gotten surgery and only pursuing his wacky (I love wacky) alternative methods. And once again I think all this just lends itself further to "prudence" (D&C 89:11 - incase anyone missed why I keep using the word prudence)."
posted at 11:49:44 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
"thanks dudes (anons)"
posted at 12:16:07 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
"p.s. again to the anon who mentioned NAMH and NIH - I used Steven E. Hyman and the research being done and collected at NIMH to answer a question on my final exam in neuroscience. The question was something like: how are mental illnesses (give specifics) being treated now and how do you think solutions or cures will look in the future? I got a 105% on the exam so I must have said something "right" ;) Point n case - yeah, it's not all big pharm."
posted at 13:59:23 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
From the Big Pharm anon    
"I'm not the same as the original anon, who is probably Kick It. And, I've never seen the infomercials."
posted at 13:59:34 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
Fair enough    
"You just sound a lot like him (Kevin Tedeau) in my brain and said somethings verbatim he says. Also, my cousin is a convicted felon and he's a great man. Not really a big dis. You just sound like him. And again, I agree with you. So, lets be friends eh :)"
posted at 14:03:00 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
Sorry, They_Speak    
"For throwing the Big Pharm stuff at you. Wow. Maybe that felon guy reads about the same stuff I do, then. I really just wanted to know what you thought about it and thought you might have some interesting stuff to say about it. And you do. Now I know. :)"
posted at 14:13:57 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
No man I'm sorry    
"I connected everything you said with one word in one sentence "NOTHING but pseudo science". Minus that most of what you said is pretty fair and seems open to suggestion (lacks absolutism) as far as I can see. I just don't have much respect for people when they come across as though something is one way and one way only - which now I see you weren't doing.

I think it's horse shit that Satan has infiltrated even the temple of science with his secret combinations :) Bugs the hell out of me. And yes, if something is proved to be true because some corporate blow hard funds it so the result fit their agenda - that's not science. That's Babylon the great whore! I digress :)"
posted at 14:27:24 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
"I am the anon that talked about big pharm. Not the pseudo science anon. You have multiple anons going on here.:)"
posted at 14:59:24 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
""Dude...." and "Sorry, They_Speak" are the same guy right? But not the same guy as pseudo science/Kick It? Yeah, I get it (I think). Hence I apologized for firing off a response directed at you as if you were both pseudo and big pharm when you weren' I getting that right? lol"
posted at 15:05:07 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
"was that last one a joke I missed?"
posted at 15:05:57 on January 17, 2013 by they_speak
And you know what's funny...    
"I also thought you were the one using absolutes. I guess it doesn't really matter, though. Admittedly, I am just plain untrusting of The Establishment because of these secret combinations."
posted at 15:07:01 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous
You got it right. :)    
posted at 15:08:03 on January 17, 2013 by Anonymous

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"In a decaying environment, the mind is the last redoubt of righteousness, and it must be preserved even amid bombardment by evil stimuli. Christ is competent to see us through, “for in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted” As promised, He will make either “a way to escape” or a way “to bear it”."

— Neal A. Maxwell

General Conference May 1987