Venting hard times in my marriage
10/1/2012 2:46:11 AM
I married my wife civilly, then we were sealed in the temple, 6 days before our first child was born. My wife is a convert, but without any foundatinal teachings of Jesus Christ. I so was hoping for a strong spiritual based marriage, even though we didn't start out on the right foot. My wife's family is very educated, compared to my only completing High School, and very wealthy compared to my family. When we were dating, I held her hand and said that I felt uncomfortable that she had this money, and her reply was that she couldn't help that she came from a family that had money, and I realized that is correct, it is not right to judge someone based on what they have or don't have. But being materialistic gets in the way of Gospel Living. As of now, I am not allowed to pay my tithing, if I do, there will be serious consequences she will impliment, we have 2 children, I feel I need to keep this family together so as to at least expose our children to gospel teachings. Saying prayers though just isn't enough, I would love to have family home evening, read scriptures, but my wife going back to worldly ways is saying that church is just a fantasy, doesn't put a roof over our heads, food on the table or money in the bank. Depending on the mood of my wife, i'm allowed to read the scriptures 5 minutes with my children, then they have to go back to doing homework and extra homework so as to make up for my "stupid genes" as she puts it, I do have ADHD in my background and other mood disorders. I tell my wife I love her, and some times her response is that of course I love her because she is so good, compared to me, meaning education and money wise, the best thing I did was to push her to marry me, well my wife is very stubborn and can't be pushed into anything. She was depressed and I honestly thought suicidal, got closer with her, we both are inside type people, not outdoorsy sports etc. She is much smarter than I am in many things and very impatient with my short comings. She uses swear words and yelling at me in front of our children, our oldest is now getting an attitude, rebellious sometimes, and of course this is all my or my family's fault because no one in her family is this way, they are all so much better behaved, educated, going to better schools and make more money than what I do. I know how when Joseph Smith was imprisoned and a revelation was given that if the very jaws of hell would gape after him, that it would be for his good. Paraphrasing the revelation, I make mistakes and am reminded constantly that I'm not perfect, I posted under S~xual addiction my strugglings, but how Joseph Smith was given revelation that the Son of Man hath descended below all things, art thou greater than He? I in no way would consider my self close to the character and integrity that Joseph Smith had, I have a testimony that he was a prophet and a very great man to have gone through all that he did, sealing his testimony with his blood, his family even not being active after his death. Mine is going inactive infront of my eyes. When my wife has gotten angry in the past, has destroyed our family Book of Mormon, ripped up her personal scriptures triple combination, took all gospel pictures down in the house and ripped them up, when she does this, I do remain calm and immediately afterwards say I forgive her, but she rants and raves saying it's just paper, doesn't matter anyway so who needs me to forgive. Because of the hard time our children are giving her, she has a couple of times in tears expressed such disappointment and total hopelessness because my children, not her children, give her such a hard time, all my fault, if she knew how stupid they would be because of my lousy family she would not have married me, not have had children with me. She was depressed when i met her and I tried to help her, but now she is depressed and feels total hopeless, our children will not be as good as her family's children, my family is garbage, my mom is a pig and a pig mother raises a pig son. Very hurtful words, I won't say all that has been said and all that she has done or pulled away from me, won't allow me to hug her at times, makes staying focused in the Gospel hard when my family seems to be drifting so far from the Gospel, I find it easier for me to look for substitues for her affection through fantization, chatting online with someone who I would hope would want to be with me, she even has said she doesn't care if I found someone else, she wants her life back, doesn't want our children to just let her go. I don't feel this is the correct answer and am fighting to keep this familiy together. Until the Lord tells me otherwise, not to let this family fall appart, would be so easy to do, all I have to do is say OK honey, let's file for divorce, i'll take these children, find someone else you take what you want, visit whenever you want, we go our separate ways, I feel she would jump at the chance, but sometimes it seems so easy to talk her into this, but I feel it is very wrong. We were sealed in the temple, though she doesn't care for the garments as much as I would like to wear them, I'm not allowed to pay tithing or else, I better not wast time reading scriptures when they need to do more math, science, history, language arts etc. She won't even join us for prayer or close eyes, just eats like so what. Very hard to go through, yet when she is nervous or scared, driving long distances and tired, asks me to say a prayer, sometimes just says it's all bull #%@!. Well thanks for letting me vent, hope I was able to allow some of you brothers and sisters in the gospel feel more comfortable with your gospel centered families despite what challenges you are facing, at least you have the gospel together, no home teachers, visiting teachers allowed in our home at the moment. I do teach primary kids at church and have done some home teaching as schedule permits, and my own procrastination doesn't get in the way. So brothers and sisters, you who share the gospel foundation who are struggling in your marriages for one reason or another, maybe this will let you know you don't have it so bad. You can read the scriptures as a family, pray as a family, pay tithing and attend church, have home teachers visit or visiting teachers visit, realize that money, education and nice things aren't everything, you have priceless treasures you can share as a family, you can hug, you can kiss and share affection with each other at times, be grateful. I do feel better after sharing this, my wife is soft with me at times, but it seems the hard times outweigh the good at the moment, I feel like I'm going inactive because what I must sacrifice to keep this family together. I don't have a temple recomend, can't pay tithing without destroying this family, yes my wife would do that over tithing. But reading the posts that have been placed here gives me strength, and I feel supported and loved, my family should be the strength to keep going, but I feel greater strength from other members, sad, but at least there is support and love there when my home seems to be crumbling.


Hmm. tough situation.    
"I feel for you, brother. Sounds like your wife is a tiger mom.
Have you considered some couples therapy? It sounds like there could be some boundary and respect issues. Both sides have to want the marriage to work or it's broken.

There is a book that I found really good --I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by Gary Lundberg and Joy Lundberg

It really helped me to understand what I'm responsible for and how to help others without owning their happiness.

May you find peace!"
posted at 10:15:02 on October 1, 2012 by Anonymous
Couples Therapy    
"Thank you anonymous, I will look for this book. No my wife wants nothing to do with psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor type people, it shows weakness, according to her, she is ok, i'm the one who has the problems, she would probably leave me if she knew I was posting here anything between her and I, but I need to get help somewhere, I need to feel loved, needed, important, because I don't get those feelings from her, sometimes it seems the only thing keeping us together is our children, and even then, when they misbehave, she wants to leave them as well. I check here all the time, I work the night shift have access to the computer and always check my posts, my emails, I just want to connect with people with the same pure true gospel principles that I am missing in my life. I believe I know why I give into the sex addiction temptiations, desiring to feel loved, a good wholesome desire, I sometimes look in chat rooms, the romance ones, sometimes yes adult ones, but really just want to feel accepted or needed by someone on an emotional level, I check my email constantly, but I have a selfish reason for doing those things to, I want to help someone, to let them know they matter so much to me and I would do anything to help them and comfort them, in the hopes that I may matter to someone also, that they would want to offer their love and support. I don't feel I have a lot of friends, don't fit in well with others, i'm not an outside type person, don't do sports or other activities, I read, write poems, watch T.V. and right now i'm home by myself, wife and children are gone on a week vacation that I couldn't get approval to go, so I work night shift, 9 PM to 9 AM, and i'm then at home during the day by myself, work at night is pretty quiet, don't have support, friends that are there, people that get to know this part of me, then feel sorry for me and I am treated with pitty, not a genuine desire to befriend me, I don't feel I fit in, I don't feel I belong, I so want to help someone so that I may in turn be genuinly cared for and desired to get to know for me being me. could be other reasons too, but i just got off work, i'm tired, been crying feeling lonely, unwanted, and if I didn't have an understanding of how death is not an answer to anything through gospel teachings and the consequences for commiting such an act, would consider it."
posted at 11:58:49 on October 1, 2012 by lds_brother
My heart goes out to you    
"You seem like a nice guy. Words are just a tool for a message. You can tell a lot from what people write, and you seem broken. Everything you care about and believe in is being withheld from you. and you accept that because you want to at least keep something else extremely important, a Family. That, in my opinion, is very genuine and kind. Anybody can quickly say that you need to wear the pants in your family and how could you let your wife run all over you. But, although if it was me i wouldn't let that happen, but was you are a very caring person. You wanted to accept your wife for who she was and love her. That's really nice.

All I'm trying to say is, i see a man who does not care for earthly type things, but solely wants true happiness. That's a rare quality. I wish i had it, its like being a kid again, you know?

But, it has its downfalls. I think you tend to see the good over the bad. Your wife comes from a family where appearance is huge. And that my friend, is a HUGE burden. It doesn't bring any happiness whatsoever. Money is another thing. She seems to value it pretty strong. She doesn't care about your beliefs, that's not right. She disrespects you, and in front of your kids. She sees your kids mistakes and faults as your genetic crap. No offense, but your wife has some issues. you dont see it because you choose not to. You love her ( I think?) but especially love your family. And you take all of that crap. It won't end well, I'm sorry. You know in your heart this isn't right. I hope you see something to fix this."
posted at 23:35:36 on October 1, 2012 by moronidenovo
Seeing the good and "wearing the pants"    
"Thanks Moronidenovo for your comments, it's true, it's a hard thing to go through. You are right, about not ending well, but I do see that it wont help our children, they are just too young right now. When they are grown, then yes, I will absolutely put my foot down, it will either be 110% Gospel living or not, no middle ground, no retreat, no surrender!

I saw a really awesome Captain America quote, goes something like this:

When the Mob tells you that Wrong is Right, and the politicians tell you the same thing and the media is also screaming the same message in your face, then is the time when you plant your feet like a tree near the river of truth, the Mob will tell you to move, the Politicians will tell you to move the wole world will tell you to move, but that is when you look them squarely in the eye and say: "No, you move!" Marriage takes two, and our children aren't able to fend for themselves, so as stubborn as my wife is, as hard as things are to go through, I will go to hell for my children, but when they are no longer under my fatherly wing so to speak, then only the Gospel of Jesus Christ will matter, nothing else will, not my marriage, not my wife, not money or things or status in this world, but until then, thanks for all who read this, post, offer support, love, prayers. It would be an unrighteous dominion thing if I were to force my wife to do things that I know to be right, wasn't there something like that in the pre-existence? something like someone wanting to make sure that not 1 sould would be lost? Not the Lord's way, and we cannot force anyone to do anything any way, no one can be pushed, shoved or pulled into heaven or other degrees of glory, we all choose to go where we end up. There is no way to fix anything by myself, it takes two, I honestly thought it was going well, started well, but, free agency, faults and weaknesses took precidence over gospel truths. Thanks again for your concern, advice, support, reading what ive written, helps release some of the burden I'm faced with. I love you greatly my brother and all brothers and sisters whether you support or agree disagree or just read this in passing."
posted at 00:05:30 on October 2, 2012 by lds_brother
You have more power than you think    
"You can't lay down. I'm sorry, but your kids will be affected by your relationship with your wife. It won't be good. Its not stable or healthy. If what you say is true, that your wife actually blames your kids faults and mistakes on you, that will hurt your kids. Parents dont do that. Living in a very judgmental home makes children hate their parents. they will rebel out of frustration. What will you do, if your kids deny the church. Will you feel like a failure? Will you feel like you did enough? Wil you blame yourself or your wife? Think ahead because it's not as simple as you think.

I believe staying in this relationship is worse than breaking it up. I k ow that's not easy, my parents divorced. There was a lot of crying, sad phone calls and "I miss you" But you know what, I got over it. I maintained a relationship with my dad, but life went on. Your kids will go on if you do decide that your relationship isn't working out. If your not happy, your kids will know. When my mom found a new husband, we could all tell she was happy. We all knew this is what she wanted, and in turn we were happy.

Your not going to make a big decision like splitting up just because you read my comment. I know, but at least consider what could be. Because the way your living, it's not fair and you can't assume your kids will just be better off like this. They have their own minds, and when they reach those teen years, they will wonder why dad didn't stand up for what was right. I hope you work things out."
posted at 21:43:10 on October 2, 2012 by moronidenovo
I don't want to say this but I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't.    
"Maybe...for there to be improvement in your marriage you need to open your eyes and see that you are just as sick as your wife. I hear you share about your wife's "sins" and yet you breeze right over the fact that you have, in essence, cheated on her. In your heart. With porn, chat, etc. Is it any wonder she doesn't trust the church that you are a part of? Do you see the hypocrisy in these righteous things you're supposedly being deprived of, and your infidelity? Maybe she feels that she is protecting your children from something evil. Moroni means well but he is still a kid who has never been married and doesn't know the first thing about how to make a marriage work. I don't see your wife as the problem. From your post, it sounds like your wife is just as starved spiritually starved as you are. She has some annoying defense mechanisms, for sure, but I don't see "one good spouse" and "one bad spouse". I see two equally "sick" spouses in desperate need of counseling and individual programs of recovery. (And I am being kind and giving you the benefit of the doubt) In all honesty, I can actually understand where your wife is coming from. You seem to blame her for all of your problems. Ironically, that is exactly what you accuse her of. That is a sure recipe for divorce. She doesn't want a divorce or she would have filed for one already. Time for both of you to focus on your own individual weaknesses. Work on yourselves for a year. You are both so focused on what the other is doing wrong that you can't see that the problem lies with each of you and your relationship with yourselves.

Hey, if I'm wrong, please disregard. It might be worth looking at. We can't really love our spouse until we love our self. It sounds like pride but it is the opposite of pride. I hope one day this post makes sense to you."
posted at 23:10:21 on October 2, 2012 by Anonymous
Thanks for the comments . . .    
"Anonymous, I agree, I am actually getting support through the 12 step program and getting sponsors, my wife is not aware of my weaknesses nor of my getting help, my wife comes from a very materialistic culture background, not as accountable I guess in gospel standards because she was not raised that way, I totally accept my faults, but I guess I was venting on my wife's issues. I am totally wishing she would go with me to counseling, we could help each other, but no, she feels counseling is a huge sign of weakness, her "face" so to speak is what she really focuses on. I am far from perfect, but many people who know us, have complimented me on my patience and testimony, yes, I feel sick inside, knowing my weaknesses, but feel much better as I express my feelings in places like these, thank you for taking the time and effort to comment, to me it shows support and love wether or not you meant it that way. I love counselors, I know the best counselor is our Savior, Jesus Christ, I do need to turn to him more often, until I get a definite answer to leave this relationship, regardless, I will endure, work on myself, because I cannot change my wife, just "venting" i guess, helps me have more patience and understanding. I apologize if it appears that I am blaming her, I don't think I am, maybe I was, but I know I am responsible for me, she is responsible for her, I just wish she would have a change of heart as I am working on changing mine. I am glad for the comments, words said, my views are not perfect, but I am also honest with myself about my weaknesses, and whatever physical imperfections we have in this life, will be gone in the resurrection, I am grateful for these teachings that bring peace and understanding. I know I am not perfect and these things hurt her, my weaknesses, and I am actually improving and feeling the spirit more, though the Adversary would have me think otherwise. I appreciate again, words and advice spoken, ways to look at myself and have patience with the issues going on around me that I cannot control. I am sorry for my imperfections and failings, I hope you do not judge me based soley on what is written here, just writing what I feel most strongly about in my own imperfect way through my own imperfect views."
posted at 00:05:46 on October 3, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
One thing I forgot to add . . .    
"I have deleted all chat rooms and have not done any of that since posting here, was a big eye opener, having potentially hundreds or thousands of people reading what I posted, not as big of a deal compred to when I shall have to account to my Father in Heaven. Still struggling with other SA but not as severe, and getting lots of help, I am grateful for this website allowing me to vent, express my emotions and gradually overcome things, I have faith in my Savior and know these things can be repented of."
posted at 00:10:05 on October 3, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
i am younger    
"But that doesn't mean I k ow nothing or what I say has little value. I dont know why, but I have a knack for understanding people by their words. From what you have provided, your wife is a very "hard" hearted women who is very prideful. That will stop people dead cold from processing in the gospel and true happiness. Realize, you can't change her. Even if you wanted to, you can. And yes, you and every single person in the world, has their faults. BUT, you strive happiness and the gospel!!! That's huge, I dont think you realize how honest and genuine that is. And you know what, I'm sorry but you can be happier with someone else. This whole thing where people say it's always both equal blame for spouses problems I reject that. Every relationship is different. I think you are both equal to blame for being in this situation, after all you guys agreed to marry no? But now, today, this month, this year, the choices you make are what matters.

You are here for a reason. You dont feel what you have is where it should be. So, you feel there is a problem in your relationship. If your wife does not recognize and work towards solving this problem, it will always be there. Not only that, she thinks counseling is "weak" and would never do it. So what the heck are you supposed to do. Listen to your heart, brain and spirit. I know you didn't marry your wife seeing a divorce in the future. I know you want a happy family. But if she doesnt believe in the Eternal family, how can your kids. How can that even be a reality.

Think sooo much more. Ask yourself everything. Don't assume anything as far as what you think would be right,actually ponder what the co sequence will be in the future. Again, good luck, god bless."
posted at 00:15:26 on October 3, 2012 by moronidenovo
Moronidenovo, you have a good heart . . .    
"I admire your heart and your comments, you know, a whole life changing decision should not be based on just a couple of pages or even a hundred pages of just the surface of what's going on, there is more, I should say that at times when my wife is scared she will ask me to pray for her, is allowing our children to learn the hymns on piano, helping with their music skills, it is not all bad, I apologize, there is some good, of course there is, just what gets to me is the bad, I have faith that if this relationship does need to be absolved, the Lord will direct me to do so, I trust in his guidance and council, and I honestly say I would give the same advice that you have with what has been expressed. I have a great love for you brother, my parents were also divorced many years ago when I was only 12 years old. Here is what I see happening if we were to divorce, with all the wealth of her family, she would then attack me, personally ensuring that our children had as little to do with the gospel as possible, I cannot allow that, if I am trying to teach them gospel principles, despite my weaknesses which I am getting help for, with places like these, they will have the spirit influence and know to whom they can turn to their salvation, paraphrasing Nephi. Whereas if we were separated, no gospel principles taught at all, she would find a way to hurt me like this, once again this is a cultural thing, if you burn a bridge, you make sure even the ashes get burried or something like this, not forgiving, getting even, attacking back and knowing you are right to do so, I will not cause further contention nor that kind of hurt within our children, if my wife truly wanted to leave, I believe she would have done so, just maybe she was venting on me because her life now is so different than what she believes she wants and all the things her family has that she doesn't have and doesn't look at the good that we have, but has the attitude, the glass is only half full, only half, it should be all the way full. Well again, I apologize if I have caused any discomfort or ill feelings, not to discourage anyone from expressing their feelings, maybe someone out there is having a similar experience and their answer is to get out of that relationship. Maybe someone out there is struggling to see the good in their relationship and reads this, sees how messed up I am, how messed up my wife is, how this whole situation is just really messed up and they look at themselves and think, you know, maybe I don't have it so bad, I can do this, I will be happy with what I have and thank the Lord for the things that I don't have that I don't want. Someone always seems to have it worse and someone always seems to have it better. Just venting, sorry if I seemed to be accusing or blaming, overlooking my faults, just helps me, in my life, expressing these things somewhere instead of keeping them bottled up, my views change alot also, but what I have written I have written and will be responsible wether good or bad for those things, I am not perfect, this is not scripture, just my opinion and I listen to other people's opinions, well, I guess this comment is not just to you brother, just another way I wanted to express some more issues and concerns. Also, just FYI, age, to me is irrelevant as to where wisdom can come from, how old was Joseph Smith when he was called? How old was Jeremiah? David? The lord looks on the heart, man looks on the outward appearance, so what, no man will judge us when we stand at the judgement bar, it's just dealing with things here temporarily and improving, learning and growing, and we should never stop doing that, no matter our age or experiences."
posted at 01:03:44 on October 3, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
Try to meet your wife where she is at, and pull her up.    
"You started naming some of the reasons your wife is not all bad...keep going! What else? Why is this marriage worth saving? Why did you fall in love with her in the first place?

Don't get me wrong, Brother. I think you're a great guy. I really like you. (I wouldn't bother, otherwise.) Could it be that you are just as concerned about how other people see you as you think your wife is?

That is part of how we recover. We use the old adage that everyone is a mirror. Look deep at what you think your wife is doing wrong because chances are it is really a character defect that you possess. It is really hard to see without someone else helping us to see it. That is what the 12 Steps are for. The Steps put our focus squarely on the only person we have any chance of surrendering. "ME" I am glad you have a sponsor. I hope he has a lot of 12 Step experience. We all thought our situation was "unique". But we discovered that we were blinded by pride. Yes, pride. It is what we all suffer from and you've got an especially bad case of it. There is hope. You sound like I did 12 years ago. I was so focused on how my wife was not living up to my expectations that I was oblivious to the fact that I had failed her miserably and she was caught in a cycle of lashing out at me for the pain I had caused her. It wasn't until we separated that my eyes were opened and I could see for the first time that the problem was ME. I got to work on ME and eventually she couldn't take the anger of seeing me "getting better" so she got to work on herself and her own healing. Looking back, I see how self-righteous and prideful I was. She, being a convert, must have been disgusted by the church I used as weapon to feel better than her about. I realized that SHE was the one that was actually stronger spiritually, and what a wake-up call that was. Yes, she may have hated the church during that time and scoffed at any mention of it, but she was the one privately pouring her heart out to God in more humility and pain than I could possibly muster.

Good luck, Brother! Take what may apply and disregard the rest. Hang in there and keep working those Steps with someone who has successfully worked them already. Sometimes it's darkest just before dawn."
posted at 08:40:31 on October 3, 2012 by Anonymous
thanks for the comment and concern anonymous    
"I don't think I really care at the moment how others see me, otherwise I would be hiding more of my weaknesses and not posting on places like these, just seeking some different approaches, I really appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts and feelings and also that you said you liked me, thanks, despite my weaknesses, which really get me depressed sometimes, it's hard to feel positive things about myself at times, this really helps. Thank you for sharing some of your experiences. Yes, I agree, I should focus more on my faults and having more faith in my Savior and following him, regardless of what others say or do, I am only accountable for me, and all I can do is offer my love and be there for her as shewillallow. I agree should focus on the positive things, not just the bad, just venting, thanks again, so much for your insights and experiences, I know I am not perfect and don't have all the answers and love to learn from the experiences of others. Love you much brother."
posted at 10:12:57 on October 3, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
Devils Advocate    
"I'm going to play the devils advocate here. I think I let you have it a little bit and if I'm way off base I'm sorry. I do believe you're suffering and I'm sorry for that. I hope you find peace.

I disagree strongly with Moroni. I don't see a prideful woman. I see a woman with some different values and needs that are not only not being met but are being marginalized by the piety of a man who is as hypocritical as the day is long. Don't worry you're in good company. We all like you because we are all hypocrites too :)

I was intrigued by your story of her tearing up all the church stuff. I agree with her. Forgiveness is the last thing she needed. I think she needed to be understood. In fact, just thinking outside the box here, maybe what she did was the right thing to do. I'm not going to conjecture why it could have been the right thing to do. But consider it. It's possible. Maybe you should have been asking for forgiveness. At least forgiveness for failing to understand why she acted what appeared to be so irrationally.

Why she did it. Why. That's the eternal question. Why is she supposedly worldly? Why does she want her kids to be smart? Why is she afraid of your genes? Why does she talk mean about your mom? Why does she trust science and, from your perspective, not the God of science? I'll bet you eternity that there is not one, single, solitary, "evil" that is motivating her. Then the other eternal question: how is why and what she does any less good or less valuable than why and what you do? If you want her to share your values in the church I'd say you best start seeing how you can value her perspective and values. Sorry, but much of what you write seems to show a serious lack of respect/understanding for the things she cares about. And what's more disturbing to me is you justify the lack of respect with the gospel. Do you think she can't feel your resentment and judgment when she makes the kids study instead of reading scriptures? Hmm, I say no wonder she tore into some things you value.

On another note but possibly related; can I ask you a question? Do you feel like you use the gospel as a cloak to hid behind? It's easier to paint a sarcophagus than it is to investigate what's inside. Are you hiding? Who/what are you hiding from? I'll let you answer those questions for yourself but I will say it is not enough to say you have a weakness and then talk about the wonders of the gospel for an hour. Or talk about your wives shortcomings. Lol, that's what church is for! But, it sure doesn't help for getting sober or repenting. My opinion, lead with your weakness. Talk about that. In detail. Get real. Get honest."
posted at 17:00:13 on October 3, 2012 by they_speak
another good point They Speak    
"I agree, my wife is motivated by being more smart, I may hid behind the gospel so to speak, should be more responsible for being involved in what she wants, helping our children do more homework, thing is, she gets real angry because they are not as smart as she'd like for them to be, even got abusive, someone called the cops on her once, almost did prison time and I was told I need to man up and stop her from being so abusive, so just a little more history in my marriage. I am very patient, I do ask my wife for forgiveness and that I am sorry, she compares my sorry to toilet paper that you flush, doesn't mean anything, won't forgive, well I know that the Lord teaches about forgiveness, I may be a hypocrite, but I am an honest hypocrite, not all blaming her, not all blaming me, my weaknesses, i am lazy, i don't like to study or help our children study as much as my wife wants them to, i would allow them some play time, she not at all unless they complete the 5 or 6 extra homework books she gets for them to combat my stupid lazy genes, maybe she is right, i should totally give in to her and study like crazy with my children, focus on their education and then when they are grown have their own job and make good money, that is the time to have fun, honestly that is the way she thinks, i was brought up to have fun be happy and enjoy life, my wife hates this, but enough about my wife, I do tend to be lazy, i actually am much better at the weakneses i had, 12 step program and having someone to contstantly report to absolutely works, seeing the branch president works, posting and venting on these web sites helps me, so more of my weaknesses, ok, here goes, I don't exercise like I should, i like to eat sweets too much and don't take as good of care of the house chores like my wife does, accept for she won't ever wash the bathrooms or vacuums, she is a high quality woman and i'm low quality, true i was raised in a poor family, so i get to do the real dirty work if i am home, i like to read or watch tv instead of do chores, i someties don't do chores until my wife tells me to do them and by then it's too late and she is mad that i didn't take the initiative. Well I don't know if I hide behind the gospel, but i do love gospel teachings and maybe spend too much time reading or wanting to do church activities even when my family won't go with me, so maybe should cut down on that and spend time with my family instead of going to church sometimes and see what will make the wife more happy? well just wondering how I hide behind the gospel? I originally wrote this post, I was down deep in my sin, hadn't joined a 12 step group or had a sponsor, now things are much different, been praying aloud every day, reading my scriptures aloud every day. Getting real for me, I was honestly just venting on this post, i got real in another post under S~xual addiction. Maybe i'm going about this all wrong, but I feel what I feel, and I would like more gospel activity in my life, I know we will have a whole lot of gospel going on after this life, we can't hide from it, have to face it, I feel guilty but face my guilt and am honest about my weaknesses. any way, They Speak, I know that for a marriage to work, it takes two, I can compromise and give, but also the other side has to give as well, I have given alot, but i just don't have the things that she wants me to give, like money, a richer family and nicer things like hers has, so maybe I should focus on getting more of those things instead of reading scriptures and praying? I am just not clear or sure what you mean by what am I hiding from? I don't like to be yelled at, I don't like to be abused or see my children abused, she has worked on that but sometimes things happen, I don't think I am hiding, but some things I do wish were different and I just voice it, I don't like to feel unsupported or judged, talked down to, spoken harshly towards, about my weaknesses, I do hide those from her, my issues she is actually not aware of, so I am scared of her finding out how bad I messed up before I was able to seek out and get the help, that does scare me, I am scared of her totally turning my children away from gospel teachings because the gospel doesn't provide money or nice things. Why my wife is worldy? well I believe she sees that her family as educated as they are and rich as they are, they have a good face to show the world, where as my family, being poor, looks like garbage to her and she doesn't want our children to end up like that, so cut out the gospel, other than that, I would love to hear a different possibility that I just don't see. honestly I appreciate your insight your questions, if youcould please elaborate more as to what you feel I may be hiding or why my wife is so destructive of gospel teachings and things that help represent the gospel I would really honestly like to hear some possibilities that I am probably just missing, maybe you see an answer or better way to go about this than what I do, I am not perfect, I don't like to hide my imperfections, maybe you could help me through them better. Well please post again, your added insight may be just what I am needing to use. I am grasping at straws here, hope it is all just me, then I can absolutely work really hard to get things right. Love you brother, please feel free to give some added advice or council that could help me further."
posted at 17:36:08 on October 3, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
I don't know    
"...what you're hiding from. Only you and God know that. Yourself? I just observed that you talk a lot about the gospel/church (as many members new to recovery do) and your wife's sins (as many people new to recovery do) but not a lot about the problem or solutions to the problem. And I posed the ensuing questions.

This I know - recovery hurts. Often times the refuge of the Spirit born of a testimony is a salve to that pain. I'm just not sure, from my own experience, I don't abuse that salve to keep from facing the real issues. I think, for me how I respond to the gospel has in some ways kept me in the cycle. Always reaching for the gospel (misunderstood/misplaced) to make me feel better as it does but never finding recovery. Spiritual things out of order became almost as much of an escape for me as anything.

Maybe this is just my story but I think that's why so often I'm cynical when folks on here and in meeting start elaborating on Spiritual things and talking real lofty and Spiritual when I know...they're nothin but a devil. Waisting their time away from the mirror. P.s. I like devils I aint judgin. I guess after years of having a testimony that could light the walls a flame and melt peoples faces off on fast sunday but that was as impotent as Abraham in producing fruit in my own life and being witness to the same among so many others I came to feel I wanted to see the world as it is. No longer through the lens of idealism, fantasy, dogma, and the warm and fuzzy's born of a testimony that has no more power to help me repent than it does to help me wield a light saber and kill sith lords. Satan has a testimony and can talk about the gospel. As it is. I want to see things as they are. I put my worthless misplaced faith and emotionalism behind me.

As far as your wife goes there is obviously going to be worlds of things I'm unaware of so I can only have so much an valid opinion. As far as the abuse is concerned that's a tough one. "Man up" just sounds silly but you do have a right to wise up and count yourself a human being. However, I stand by my opinion that she is a person with major unmet needs...and maybe issues. Even in light of the abuse. Especially in light of the abuse in fact.

It's not a matter of giving up church or prayer or scriptures as I see it. It's a matter of validating her needs and finding out genuinely what they are. On the flip side of that coin is cleaning up your own house. Who really cares if she likes limos and college degrees? Ha! With all do respect you like internet prostitutes and Jesus. What's the difference? Worry about fixing you and validating her where she'll let you. I think you can do that and still have the church.

I just can't believe she's all bad for no reason. You said she didn't care about money when you married her? What happened? She married you in the temple? What happened? Were you happy? What happened?

Anyway, if she is just a bottomless pit and she's going to continue to be abusive then yeah peace out lady. And your worried THAT will keep your kids from being raised in the gospel? Non sense, hypocrisy (a sham of a marriage) is the furthest thing from being raised in the gospel. Further than being raised by a scholastically anal retentive mom who values security and appearances and wont let you go to church. Hell, I'd probably go to church just to rebel ;)"
posted at 19:09:07 on October 3, 2012 by they_speak
Thank you, TS!    
"LDS Brother, I am glad you are still around. That says a lot.

This is how people in the program save me from my own B.S. They call me on it.

We don't just provide a safe place to "commiserate". (That's what bars are for) 1 We call each other out on our B.S. Not because we want to hurt feelings but because it is the only KIND thing to do. The "Moroni" approach doesn't help you recover. (It may help you destroy what you have left) It only feeds the self-righteousness. There is a really good chance that if you divorced your wife and married another woman, you would find yourself in the role of "victim" once again. It is one of those terrible ironies life plays on us until we find a measure of true humility. But if you dig DEEP... and come to that place of discovery where you realize "I AM the one who created this mess.", you and your marriage may stand a chance.

Here's another hint...Your wife hasn't done ANYTHING to you that you didn't ALLOW her to do.

I have a suggestion. Read the book The Peace Giver by Jim Farrell. This might help peel another layer.

You can do it."
posted at 22:02:49 on October 3, 2012 by Anonymous
thanks for the comments again    
"Well, good thoughts and advice, I do know that I am responsible for my actions, and reactions, that whatever my wife may or may not do, is up to her, so I will try and see her view, draw closer to her, hope she will draw closer to the gospel in turn, with Jesus Christ there is always hope, like the saying "Everything's negotiable until the judgement bar" And They Speak, you brought a laugh to me as you said about my children going to church out of rebellion, that was a real good one, I guess I worry about other things too much. I am reminded of a saying I heard, Let go, and Let God, or the country song, Jesus Take the Wheel, like what we have been doing or how we have been going ourselves can be wrong but we just need to humble ourselves a lot more draw closer to Him and allow our will to become aligned with his, one of the 12 steps, which are totally working for me at the moment, in fact I just had an awesome meeting with my branch president and all out in the open, was just a great sit down and no disciplinary action needed to take place, but to contact him if I were to mess up or get tempted agailn, love priesthood leaders! Love the spirit, but was so weird, after I left the meeting with him, I felt that someone else was very very mad at me, like I had better be on my guard, you know, like I did win something but somehow was going to be attacked later. My opposition is real and is very ticked off at the moment. So thanks for the continued support and encouragement to keep what I have and keep it together, well Anonymous, why don't you get a log in so we know which anonymous to thank brother or sister :-) ?"
posted at 23:06:12 on October 3, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
Hmm much has happened in one day    
"@LdsBrother Thank you, I appreciate you saying age has little weight. That means a lot, you have no idea how many people disregard whatever I have to say just because I'm not as old as these other guys. I do believe separation would be a better choice, if all else fails. But I do think your wife will try to take everything that's important to you away. She seems like that kind of person, who craves that control and wants that last word. I dont know her, but i know people like her. They are people who put appearance and themselves abover everything else. You say your wife isn't happy maybe because the marriage didn't turn out the way she might've wanted it. That's a key, she is obssed with looking good.

This will be hard to explain. True, if she wanted to leave you she would've. But put yourself in her mind. "My parents think my husband is not up to their expectations. He comes from a poor family and isn't even smart. If my kids dont turnout smart and successful youth, they will be ashamed of them, and in turn see me as a disappointment. All of this sucks. What if I left my husband. Oh no, that would look horrible too. I would just be seconds and a divorced wife who is passed her prime"
that could very well be what she is thinking. It could be, or it could be love that's keeping her with you. I dont know. But realize the possibilities. And if it is the bad one, this could turn out a lot worse than you can imagine. She could be waiting to find a "man" who fuflils all the expectations and pressure her family gives her. And like that, she has anafrair and could leave you. If she really thinks that your kids are inferior (that's terrible!!) because they might have ADHD or ADD or come from a poor dad, she might not care much for them. And leave them too.

I dont say this to hurt you or say the worst possibilities. Because this exact situation, happened on this site. I commented on the husband. Hr said all he wants is his wife back. She left him and their kids, doesn't want anything to do with them. And im like, you need to realize there are better people out there for you. And guess what he said. It isn't her, its me and my faults. Therefore I drove her to cheat on me and to leave our kids. He was saying the same stuff some of the people on this site are saying about you: that it's mostly your fault and you can only change yourself.

I dont believe it's mostly your fault. Yes, you can change yourself. But why would you change into what she wants. She wants a nice house, good looking kids, a husband with a job that she can brag about with her friends. Just like you said, she craves worldly things because she came from a materialistic family. Are you willing to mild into that person? A person that goes against everything you believe in because you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Again, I think you have honest goals. You want your kids to grow up with a strong foundation of the gospel. You want an eternal family. Unlike your wife, you want your kids to do what makes them happy; NOT what makes them look "good." These type of Values are awesome. Hoe much more can you ask out of a husband, honestly. All I say is, you could make someone gery happy happy, a lot of women actually. But your wife hates everything about your philosophy. How can you and your kids be happy? "
posted at 23:53:20 on October 3, 2012 by moronidenovo
I like your attitude Moronidenovo    
"wish there was a way we could just email each other you know, instead of blogging and re blogging and then posting reply after reply lol. But any way, If my wife wanted to leave and I got the children, I wouldn't stop her and I wouldn't try and get her back, if she stays and helps take care of our children and hopefully comes around to the gospel I would love that too, I can try and see what she wants and comfort her, but I won't compromise gospel standards, honestly I will not do that. It is the Spirit that counts, it is the Spirit that matters most, and if she opens her heart to his influence, like I am also trying to do, I know that is what will matter the most. But we all have our free agency, and I do like what They Speak did say about how if she stops them from going to church, they may just go to church out of rebellion, lol. I try and bring humor into things as well, lighten the heart, not disrespect anyone or principles, but to gladden my mood and helps deal with the challenges i'm needing to face."
posted at 00:10:42 on October 4, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
Oh and Others    
"@ Anonymous "Try to meet your wife where she is at, and pull her up." Ehh I dont Ike your comment. I dont think lds_bro is prideful. He said that he's not allowed to pay his tithing or his wife will give him great consequence. But he talks to his bishop or steak pres about thses things. I dont know about you, but a prideful man would never admit those things!
@lds_bro these kind of comments aren't really helpful if they aren't true. Don't blame Everything on yourself. That's the wrong way to the approach life.

@They_Speak Your first comment, I didn't like much. It wasn't the fact that you disagreed wig me (I don't really care) but what you said. Your saying that lds_bro is hypercritical. Why??? I dont understand that. He said he's very patient with his wife while she is very strongly opiniated on basically everything that he and his kids do. I honestly dont see how he's the one with all he major issues. If a person, I hope most of us here, value the gospel as much as he does, why would what he wants be so wrong. Its like, our chuch teaches us to be missionaries and to try to bring everyone to the church. What if you can't even bring your own kids!?!? That makes a father sad, so I dont know how lds_bro should be on the defensive.
I laughed when he responded to you because he basically said he thinks he's not prideful and doesn't care what people think about him (I agree) and doesn't understand what you mean by, he's hiding by using the gospel. Lol.

@Anonymous "Thank you, TS!" Your comments are again, the approach of. No matter what, its your fault and you can fix a relationship if you fix yourself. Ehh, dont like that type of approach.

@lds_bro I hope you find some different opinion. I think a lot of these people are com.enting in the view that everyone here is an addict. And if your an addict, all the things that are wrong you life are a result of your addiction. That's a stupid way of looking at life. Can't it be that your addiction, is a result of all the wrong things in your life? I say so. It can always be much deeper than just the addiction.

Sigh! Lots of writing. i hope you find some value in what I write. All I am, is giving you thoughts on what you write. Maybe that's what you want, just someone to see whether your crazy or not. Idk lol."
posted at 00:51:06 on October 4, 2012 by moronidenovo
well another one for this post    
"I hope I'm not causing any contention, appreciate the advice and concern, but please let us be loving and kind to one another, avoid contention, for the devil seeketh to turn the hearts of men against each other and his angels laugheth something like that, humor is good though :0)"
posted at 01:00:27 on October 4, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
oh, Moronidenovi    
"I do find what you write to be very helpful and comforting, express your feelings and opinions without any fear of reprisal or condemnation or even negative criticizing from me whatsoever, Heavenly Father gave us free agency, who am I to say not to use it :-) we are all different, variety is the spice of life, imagine if we were all the same, how could we grow and learn?"
posted at 01:15:28 on October 4, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
Couple things    
"First Moroni, you've proved well enough that half the time you have no clue what I'm talking about or mean to say and "I laugh", smugly, because i'm the only one cleaver enough to see the hilarious discrepancies that others are blind to and I lol because...arguing with you is purposeless. Lol.

But to clarify, I didn't say it's anyones fault. Honestly I don't give a damn who's fault it is. I don't believe there is enough evidence to assume fault either way. I'm just not convinced that she is acting the way she is because she is worldly and just hates good philosophy and kids with ADD. I'm not convinced it's that simple. I think it's an obtuse observation. It's easy to say A + B = C and just make up the variables as we go. Chick + wanting nice things + rich family and bad attitude = worldly. Duh. Woman + having a deep need to be accepted and validated + fear of not having those things for herself or for her kids + handles stress poorly and unwisely = normal.? Same person. Same scenario. Different story. But who knows maybe she is all these terrible terrible things. I don't really know. I don't really care.

What I do know, is that 2 days ago LDS-Brah was looking at porn (if that's what he met by being deep in his sin when he wrote this). What I do know is that he chats online. And what I do know is talking about how terrible his wife is and about how wonderful the gospel is and how much he loves it and how much he wishes she would live it so their family can sing kumbaya forever around the eternal camp fires of the celestial kingdom wont change the glaring fact that, in a hilarious twist of irony, he's failing to live the gospel. All his wife's issues and all the beauty of the gospel don't change the fact that he's indulging in self destructive behavior. He's over there burpin the worm while shaking his other fist at his wife for not closing her eyes during prayer? Ha! How do you not understand that as hypocritical Moroni? Do we read of the same Jesus? My beam > your mote. First things first. That's all I'm saying. (and p.s. no one is saying that fixing yourself will fix the relationship. so once again half your points are void. we're only suggesting that fixing ones self will...fix ones self. but i'll bet we are a lot happier with how ever the chips ultimately fall.)

I definitely don't think you should feel guilty or like her actions are your fault LDS-Brah. That would be the worst thing you could do and I hope that my comment doesn't provoke that. Her choices are her own for her own reasons, innocent or not. I just think you need to focus on the real pressing issue. You. She could die in a car wreck tomorrow and the church could be ended by a communist over throw of the world and you'd still be stuck with you. Then what would we talk about?

Don't get me wrong venting is good. I'm still glad you said what you said. Better say it here and get it out than to let it fester in your heart and home."
posted at 02:08:36 on October 4, 2012 by they_speak
LDS Brother    
"Did a quick re-read. You seem like a sensitive dude. I hope I haven't been to corse about pointing out where I think you could focus and improve. I have a heart the size of pea and I can be pretty lose with the tongue. I didn't mean to make you out to be some evil demon hypocrite. Truth is, I don't know what the answer is man. I just know you'll be happier if/as you repent. As will I.

...and don't worry about Moroni and I being contentious. It's mostly a game to me as far as it goes with him. And I think he enjoys the intellectual gymnastics of the debate as well. Moroni is like this websites little brother. Keeping us on our toes. We love him (for lack of a cooler way to put it) a want to beat the crap out of your little smart-eh'd brother kind of way. Most the time though, I like him as an equal :)"
posted at 03:35:24 on October 4, 2012 by they_speak
I love your brothers as equals    
"You know, we all came from the same place, we all have the opportunity to end up in the same place, we all eat, sleep, have to use the restroom or outdoor whatever so I know we all have experiences, intelligence and hearts, They Speak, please don't say you have a heart the size of a pea, your kind words about playing with Moroni are very sensitive, and you using words like "I don't care" I don't believe that is true, you care a great deal, I see many postings from you, why would you bother posting if you didn't care, I wish I could give you a great big hug, wait a second, this is how we hug in the heart 't heart online using () so here is a big one for you brother: ((((((((((THEY_SPEAK)))))))))) and ((((((((((moronidenovo)))))))))) also let's not leave out ((((((((((Anonymous)))))))))), I love the effort and time and thoughts and support I feel from all of you, I am not perfect, I am not sure if either of you are perfect, for all I know there are angels also who post here, giving types of advice or providing ways of expressing something that will help someone in ways that only Heavenly Father could get them to think about what they need to start thinking about, never know, just wanted to say I love you guys!"
posted at 07:43:15 on October 4, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
LDS Brother,    
"You are right. Most of the time I seem to get Heavenly Father's messages through other people. He has sent many angels to help me trudge this road.

Moroni, It is not that you are younger. I actually think you are pretty bright for a young man. It is more of "we don't know what we don't know" and marriage is one of those things that I just had no clue about until I was in the thick of it. A lot of the time, the "right thing" might look completely ridiculous to a single man or woman but it makes perfect sense to a married person. When we get married we are thrust into a whole new dimension of chastity that we didn't even know existed. We are placed in a whole new dimension of selflessness that we didn't know existed. It goes back to the mirror. If we let it, our spouse can be a mirror that shows us our most destructive character flaws, which enables us to get to work on them. It can be a huge wake-up call to come face to face with how utterly self-centered we are. If we resist, we maintain that core selfishness and still feel "alone" in our marriage.

I am not being condescending when I say that you just don't understand until you've taken those vows with another person and God. It is just one of those things that, hopefully, you will understand soon enough. Given what you do know, your advice is charitable and obviously comes from the heart.(even if it is laced with the need to be right) But if you had the "whole" picture, you might see that it is not that cut-and-dry. It is not about assigning blame and whoever has the most points wins. It is an all or nothing deal. Everyone wins or everyone loses. It is nowhere close to the point of LDS Bro throwing in the towel with his marriage. He has yet to clean his side of the street. There is still a good chance that once he has allowed his heart to be changed, his wife will follow suit. It's hard to understand that when you don't see that he has anything to change, though.

((((((((LDS BRO)))))))))))))))))) Keep peeling."
posted at 10:07:47 on October 4, 2012 by Anonymous
Just an update    
"Things are a little better at home, just really coming to terms that me and my wife's desires are different, I am not responsible for her behavior, the Lord needs to be placed first in my life, i'm so glad for those I have reached out to that have helped me realize that it is the Lord that matters most, I have great faith in the church, did some home teaching, love to feel the spirit, I need to ensure my children are taught the gospel, as I place the Lord first, i'm not so burdened down by the negative things that happen in my marriage, I cannot control another person, only myself, i loved the talk in the ensign about happy families, the main thing being forgiveness, even if it's one sided, helps me release some hurtful burdens, if I am not forgiven, i'm now starting to realize that i'm not responsible for the actions or feelings of another, if the Lord forgives, what else matters? I know satan does not forget, and uses past weaknesses to attack and cause feelings of discouragement, sometimes i give in, feel bad, but learning not to be hard on myself. Love the gospel, helps me cope with all things, that is my new hope to focus on. anyway, glad to read other postings, will update as time permits."
posted at 10:25:41 on October 26, 2012 by LDS_BROTHER
And the rest of the story is...    
"Any updates? Your last post is your best post. I hope you're still progressing. Your role is to love your wife. Your role is to love your children. Your role is to love the Lord. Your role is to be the spiritual head of the home. I think you can manage all of these no matter what happens. And the same goes for me. I can be the spiritual head of the family, not because I am the most spiritual but because the Lord has asked me to.

Good luck with everything to you and to me. May God bless you and your family."
posted at 10:36:20 on December 5, 2012 by SimonLeper

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"Strength comes from uplifting music, good books, and feasting from the scriptures. Since the Book of Mormon was to come forth “when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth” (Morm. 8:31), study of that book in particular will fortify us."

— Russell M. Nelson

General Conference, October 1988